The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. Once you have taken the covenant you are native born. Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. (I dare you to use this in your class), I know a girl made of memories and phrases, lives her whole life in chapters and phases -Jimmy Buffett. This is very similar to The Beatles- All you need is love. So they disagree with each other. The Clementine Literature suggested that he maintained secrecy about the conversion and continued to be a member of the Sanhedrin for the purpose of covertly assisting his fellow Christians. I agree that the teaching of Gamaliel did influence his life and was the foundation of his ministry because he is a Talmudim from that school. Yes youre a cookie cutter christian typing up Constantine derivative nonese. Not the Jesus of the Koran, written by Muhammad the self-appointed prophet, and not the Jesus of Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed apostle. Note I was raised and somewhat educated Irish Roman Catholic, so no axe to grind here! This is a question our experts keep getting from time to time. Last Update: October 15, 2022. He just doesnt suddenly become submission to government and punishment, or in his words a prisoner of Jesus Christ. He is, at least, in some small way returning to what he could have been taught by Gamaliel. If I did something it MUST be right Dont use the Scripture to shed any light Dont do as I say, do as I do and then you can be a Pharisee too. In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. . Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). Which is why the Holy Spirit and Jesus chose to use Paul I believe because he had all the good and needed training before his conversion. WE are not even in this game! That is absolutely incorrect. Just moments earlier, they had almost killed the apostle Paul. he wouldn't just give it all up on a whim, especially not to be jailed, flogged, persecuted, and executed for it. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. STEP 6) LOOP- REPEAT steps 1 through 5, until your dance partner gives up, the audience gets bored, or the music stops. He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. Not to say that Paul completely left his Jewish heritage (thats a separate blog) and the almost violent passion with which he held onto them (see Galatians 5:12). teresa marina tabucchi; antonia reininghaus daughter; mountain view ar tornado 1996; safari photography settings; catfish bite force; professional executor services It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Sin is always specific, not general. To Paul, Christianity was dangerous, and to his Jewish thinking, very wrong. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. (Paul said so is one witness, but you need to establish every matter by the testimony of two or three witnesses. Created by. Jesus as the Messiah was not so much a liberal view, as one of supposed profane or contemptuous speech, i.e. Who am I to challenge hundreds years of false man-made tradition, like Jesus, Martin Luther, Columbus, Copernicus and Galileo? It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. Paul, (Timothy1:1) Jesus said, "Ye must be born again" to? But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. Since the entire ministry framework both Yeshua and Paul are 100% Jewish, meaning adherence oral and written law, you are to view it from that lense. We'll address more of this in a moment. Only after the house is finished and the paint is dry can we go and paint the garage.. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? When did Paul study under Gamaliel? get up set if you want ,,but Paul was that , dont believe it ? Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men. Who was Gamaliel in the Bible? Yet even here, not even Paul, not even once, ever said that All Scripture is EQUAL in authority, priority, and importance. There were a plethora of Pharisee within the Sanhedrin that agreed with Yeshua and Yeshua himself is a Pharisee(plethora of verses that state this as well). / 2 Tim. Not the Baptists, Lutherans etc. I remember the general approach to the Bible at Dallas being that every word in the 66 Books is the Word of God.. and we should interpret it based on the intended meaning of the author in the historical grammatical context.. As Bible-believing Evangelicals, after 2 months of silence, we could ask ourselves. Benjamin was a euphemism for Herodian Jew btw so Pharisee or not Paul was loyal to Herod, his friend was foster brother of Herod the tetrarch or Herod something, but Herod. Gamaliel. Its not like there is a reason to believe a man who said, If my FALSEHOODS abound to Gods glory why am I being judged a sinner.?. People trained by Paul to carry on the work after he left. My absolute favorite missionary story in the Bible is the account of Paul . This notion is wrong. According to tradition, Gamaliel and Nicodemus buried Saint Stephen outside of Jerusalem. This post is about how God continued to prepare Paul for his mission through his studies at the feet of Gamaliel.. The false teaching about one rule is the false teaching of the Pharisees of Pauls day, and Paul the Pharisee was pushing this false teaching. Jesus was asked twice, by two different men, the same basic question about which is the most important or greatest commandment in the Law. The answer to that question is, they have been listening to the voice of Paul, rather than the voices of Jesus and the Original Apostles. While it is true that Paul did persecute early Christians, it was for his love of the Torah and not because he was rebelling against Roman oppression. BOSS PAUL THE PHARISEE [sing it to the tune of Rapture by Blondie], Im Boss Paul, the Pharisee My hypocrisys plain for the world to see I travel the land and travel the sea to make a convert who is just like ME, All have sinned we know thats true but it never means ME it only means YOU My sins are all theoretical Im the worst of sinners- but dont ask where. Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? I admit this is all speculation and I dont have a shred of evidence for any of this but it makes me wonder if Paul was trying to start something extraordinary within Judaism (As he mentions in his defense in Acts 22) and God harnessed that ambition for the glory and advancement of His Church. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. Mainstream Judaism also reject Josephus and its evident that he was clearly Jewish. References to Paul's ancestry and youth. I am not uncomfortable with you at all, although some other users have suggest you be banned for your rather odd way of thinking. Paul was in Jerusalem from the age of 3 (under Gamaliel), so to assume he already knew how to WRITE Greek would be fallacious. And Paul only said it here, one time, in the middle of a personal letter. Where is your yeshiva in Houston? Your comments are ridiculous and borderline stupidity. But what do I do with this truth? Third, as John Polhill observes, several rulings from Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, the Jewish commentary on the Law. we only see him make use of those things POST conversion, this is true enough, but we do not really have a very large database of material to assess Pauls Hellenistic worldview prior to his conversion. These lines of reasoning all go back to the false idea that Paul must have been right and Paul couldnt possibly be wrong, so whatever Paul was thinking at the time must have been correct, and we just have to figure out what Pauls intended meaning was and what Paul was really thinking when he wrote these words. That would mean that your opinion about the unknowable unwritten mind of Paul becomes the Word of God. No. Never mind what Paul said. Paul is not a liar; he just has a dual citizenship. Supposition and/or conjecture certainly can allow for a yes that he was probably there because a Pharisee would most likely have gone to Jerusalem for the Pasch, Passover. This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. Paul has already been briefly mentioned in Acts in Chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of Stephen. According to Photius, he was baptized by Saint Peter and Saint John, together with his son and Nicodemus. Only $35.99/year. You can read Peters advice for yourself- then open your Bible to Matthew, John, Revelation, and Mark, and listen to Jesus for yourself! 1973 Inside the mind of a Jesus Person. And the head Mormon Apostle. With respect to Hellenism, Hillel was more open to Hellenism than Shammai and was therefore more open to cooperation with the Romans. Romans 10:4 states For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. What is this blog? The character and position of his father. There is a fine line to be drawn, sure God uses who we are to accomplish his will, but Paul was changed at his conversion. Jesus came to fulfill Law and Prophets and He will. In Matthew 22 and Mark 12, Jesus identified two commandments, saying one of them is the first and greatest most important one. The blog started as a supplement to teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes. Blessings following the Jesus of the Gospels. THey were called Nazarites or Netzarim (plural) or believers of the MEssianic movement (of that time) and were a sect of Judaism. Yes I agree its a commandment given by Jesus, its not optional, and it applies to us today. You who were formerly known as gentiles. Have heard some scholars saying that If Paul was living in the 21 century he would have had 5 phd, how true is that. What is the meaning of Tentmaker? I was attracted to the school because they put Pauls mantra of All Scripture is God-breathed above everything else, and I wanted to heed Pauls command and Preach the Word like Paul. IT should be heretical. What was his first name? Paul would say his success came from the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. What else do we know about him? If Christianity is the church as it is practiced in 2018 then you are correct, that is not present in the book of Acts. Paul states hes a Pharisee Acts 23:6 Paul States he kept Torah, the law through out his life Acts 25:7-8 and 28:17, Paul circumcises Timothy after the town rebukes Timothy for going into ministry uncircumcised (Acts 16:1-3) Paul attends synogogue faithfully (acts 17:1-2) Paul adhering to Passover (acts 18:21-22 and 1 Cor. I am surprised that no one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was sympathetic to Christianity, if not himself baptized. You are extremely insulting to me when you ignore what was written and only hear what your own prejudice allows. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. What is undisputed is that Gamaliel was "held in . In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people! However, as he got farther along in his faith and was eventually converted to Christianity, he became more like a Hillelite which was what Gamaliel was. A persons presuppositions about what Christianity is (or is not) is the real problem here. The soul of Saint Gamaliel appeared to the presbyter Lucian in AD 415 and told him where to find the relics of Stephen and those of his own body. Mosley is actually studied under Flusser. So get to work! Tobit is a good reference In the Babylonian Talmud, Zevahim 97b and 100b there are statements given in the name of Rabbi Akiva that in the case of an unclaimed body, if no one is attending to it, the responsibility for the buriasl of this corpse falls on this person, who must do it despite any obstacles, regardless if one is a High Priest or Nazirite, neither of whom are allowed to become tamei, ritually impure. Well then, I will stop responding to you since you are not interested in learning anything which does not conform to your already-made-up mind. They are Right On! Paul cannot stand alone in opposition to Jesus and everyone else. Jesus is in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and came to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17-20]. Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Numbers 7:59 chapter context similar meaning "And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur." As for burying Stephen, even if Gamaliel was not a Christian he would have been motivated to care for the dead, as demonstrated in Tobit. ), STEP 5) Paul said; I do not understand what I do. The rabbi Gamaliel was a Pharisee in the tradition of the great Hillel. I almost wonder if his upbringing had anything to do with the way that he thought and he acted towards Christians. I will call him a liar . Is the Word of God a revelation to man? This is a matter of defining ones terms. Because we must establish a matter by the testimony of two or three witnesses, especially something as important as What is the Word of God. No one else in the pages of the Bible besides Paul ever said anything like All Scripture is God-breathed. Ill have to change the names on these 12 chalkboards hundreds of times in the next couple of millennia. What Jesus clearly and specifically said is also superior and more important than your opinions about what you think Jesus meant or implied, but didnt say elsewhere. You seem to want to impose your views of the modern church on ancient house churches. Jesus calls us to Himself When The Show begins Were infants so He humors us Its Rocky and His Friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65t-OzhlmvE. He studied under Gamaliel. Phillip J. Critics also say that Pauls exegesis takes from later documents. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Yes you clearly are removing them from Jewish culture and using Constantine-Christianity and replacement theology to float most of your website. The overwhelming majority of the epistles is actually fighting against the teachings of Shammai in his time period. The reason why the Essenes left and went into the desert was because they believed the Pharisee were to lax in their laws and punishment in the Sanhedrin. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. If Saul is in fact a disciple of Gamaliel, then he seems to have a considerably different opinion on how to handle the apostolic witness when we meet him in Acts 9. This does not seem so radically opposed to Rome. Since November 2021, Reading Acts is edited by Sarah Westphal. In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts.. Per Euseibus the first 13 bishops the Jerusalem church were Pharisee. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. These would be lofty words for a law abiding Pharisee to be speaking and Paul obviously saw Christ as the laws fulfillment. According to Polhill there were many individual groups in First century Judaism before the war of 66-70 The different groups had much in common But each had its own combination of characteristics (Polhill 28). So if I wanted to be like Paul I could stretch the truth and claim that Marco Barrientos was my worship teacher- but really that would be name-dropping in order to impress people!, Quote from The Atlantic Monthly Magazine, January 1999 Article titled What is the Koran? by Toby Lester. So no there was zero Christianity in the book of Acts. He was an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view (Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him!). Another aspect of Hillel. Paul was probably making reference to some of the Hebrew Scriptures, quite likely including the Law and the Prophets. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. But let us not confuse the issue with facts. I keep wondering how far N.T. I differ from many of my former teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective. In fact in the book of John Jesus is pointed out as a Pharisee. Or the series on Jewish Christianity starting here: https://readingacts.com/2018/01/18/introducing-jewish-christian-literature/. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! Of course Gamaliel might have buried St. Stephen as an act of charity, given his stature in the community, not withstanding the hostility of the public. The second passage refers to Paul. I think we take Pauls claim here WAY too seriously. No it is true and I do know what im talking about since ive been a Yeshiva student for years and learning under well versed Orthodox and Messianic Rabbis. If Paul's conversion, as described in Acts was a literal event, the account would not so clearly appear to be based on the Greek classics. But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. How can I make them understand that they should deal with Paul Worship the same way that I deal with smoking weed? The Acts of the 12 Apostles arent even Canonical but some trash letters that have brought nothing good to the world are exalted as scripture, which is because Paul says scripture in it, which actually is equal to Aggadah and not inspired or less important. Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. How long will you waver between two opinions? A better resource would be Shaye Cohen, The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties (University of California Press, 2001). I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. Here are 3 examples. (And Peter certainly doesnt point to the words of some other man, a Pharisee at that, -Paul- and say that this other mans word is the word of God.). . I do not think that after conversion he started reading manuals of style in order to communicate better with Gentiles, he already was well aware of these styles because the were pervasive in the culture. Jesus did not see even the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament, as a whole unit or book that was all equal or all truly Gods words. Jesus spoke of The Law, or The Law and the Prophets, holding these 2 sections of the Old Testament above the third, least important sections the Writings. And Jesus held the Psalms, the first book of the Writings section, above the other books in the Writings section in importance, since some parts of some Psalms are prophetic. We are painters, and we paint. As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status Listen to Gamaliel. As has been said multiple times above, it is fairly common for a pupil to break off from his teachers opinion. He had nowhere to sleep, and had to go stay in a hotel for several days. To which Paul replied, youre fired. Paul then took his team of painters, and started painting the garage and the house. The followers of Yeshua and Shaul were not called Christians. Gamaliel Paul, in a speech to the Jews, tried to influence them by stating that he had been a student of Gamaliel ("I am a Jew, . Love is all you need. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. Do you have a Biblical basis for your response? And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Are you the Patricio Abramzon who attended the Evelyn Rubenstein Jewish Community Center in Houston? Being a Pharisee did not disqualify you from believing in Yeshua. He calls himself "of the people of Israel.". (Definition from the American Heritage Dictionary.) I would not limit the intervention of God in the light of Pauls claim in Galatians 1 that God had prepared him before he was born for the grace he has received (Gal 1:15). I wonder what would happen if by his own mouth ,he will say Im Roman now what do you call someone that say things and then change .. Something Paul preaches repeatedly. However I do travel to Dallas for Shavuot to visit one of Messianic Rabbis down there. But it begs the question Why would early Christians claim Rabban as one of their own? Yes, Christians are the new Pharisees and because of Paul will never figure it out. Pharisee Saul, inventor of Christianity, the new Pharisees. | Reading Acts, Can You Be a Pastor without going to Seminary? Perhaps you can contribute some insight? Polhil states that perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Paul went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3), (30). Second, Tarsus also exposed Paul to different cultures. The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Somebody did the calculations of Paul's education, and said he basically had the equivalent of two Ph.D.'s by the time he was 21 years of age. and as long as the food was not sacrificed to idols and was kosher you could eat with gentiles. No, I DONT want Paul to act like a Pope controlling all aspects of the church from a distance yet reading Pauls 2 letters to the church, it is clear to me this is exactly what he was doing. Paul = "little". I would think that he would include that in his self-description as the chief of sinners. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. You said that your QUOTE Quran is incorruptible. Thats like many Christians saying the Bible is inerrant. Muhammad is to Muslims as Paul is to most Christians as Mary is to most Catholics an idol that they worship, practically speaking. Thanks, Andrew. Human teachers and influences, for some at least, did not matter. Gamaliel. Nowhere. To think that all Jewish people were completely unified is to share the same fantasy Christians have about the early church. For that matter, was he even n the observing crowd at the time of the 1st Pentecost speech by Peter? There were plenty of other messianic pretenders besides Jesus, the difference is that some claimed that he was raised form the dead. This is your only warning before being banned for incivility. This contradicts the clear specific teaching of Jesus about the first and greatest commandment and the second. Paint the house first, and Ill stay in the garage until youre done. therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. Paul enunciated precisely the same principle in Romans 7:2 (Polhill 30). ." b. The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. Modern day Christianity has more of its roots in Constantine. And one throne for that other guy named Peter. The revelation of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12), most probably in Arabia. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Posting links about Judaism doesnt correlate that you actually understand Judaism. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence.. Ecclesiastical tradition maintains that Gamaliel had embraced the Christian faith and his tolerant attitude toward the Early Christians is explained by this. But you are still not a Muslim when our Quran is incorruptible and agrees with the teachings of Issa (p) more so than theology of Orthodox Church or any Christian denomination! Note also that there were more than one Rabbi named Gamaliel. Their differing viewpoints do not seem like enough cause, to me, to doubt that Saul studied with Gamaliel. With respect to Hellenism, Hillel was more open to Hellenism than Shammai and was therefore more open to cooperation with the Romans. So the biggest problem with the church in Corinth was Paul himself, and his abusive absentee leadership style. Polhill observes that several rulings of Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, mostly having to do with marriage and divorce. I have said I will ignore you since you are not interested in dialogue. This Evangelical Mantra has been accepted by the collective subconscious mind of The Evangelical Church without thought, question, reflection, or even 2 witnesses from the Scripture itself. Dont be put off by the ravings of Paul the Pharisee that so many Bible-believing Christians push so hard. God wants to welcome anyone into His family who has the desire to seek, follow, obey, trust, and love God. Pauls athletic references are too pervasive in his letters for him to have shared the antipathy that some Jews felt toward the games. To what extent should we use Pauls training at the feet of Gamaliel as background to understanding his later theology? Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. God told them to go one way, and they disobeyed God and did the opposite- but God still worked through them eventually, after they repented. Things which are unclear, those must remain that way until the Holy Spirit reveal them to each and everyone of us according to the level of grace , and most importantly, for a particular purpose, We born again believers do not read to know like them, but we read to live.
Tom And Kim Reeser, Top Chef 2021 Replay, Large Wall Clocks Over 36 Inches, Plastic Surgery Recovery House Las Vegas, The Black Tent Filming Locations, Articles H
Tom And Kim Reeser, Top Chef 2021 Replay, Large Wall Clocks Over 36 Inches, Plastic Surgery Recovery House Las Vegas, The Black Tent Filming Locations, Articles H